That makes no sense. In high school, she met handsome Steven Downs who saw her for the great beauty she had become. She had been the bread winner for most of her marriage, and never wavered in her desire to bring financial stability to her family. In fact, what investigator Tracy had written in his notes is that the heart monitor jumped because of excitement or intense fear. did he have eyes in the back of his head.???? No forensic evidence pointing to her, just conjecture based on how mothers should act. . Every single one. I think that you are right about certain things not being ignored. In 2008, a psych evaluation by L. Williams, Ph.D., Chief of Mental Health at Valley State Prison for Women, explained Dianes lack of emotions and its relationship to her case. But, as would be the case years later with both Stuart and Smith, the shocking truth eventually came to light that Diane Downs had allegedly lied about the deadly attack on her children. 2 years in foster care waiting to be legally free for adoption is not that uncommon even today. If not from her high profile status, she would already be out. People tend to forget that the group of young women hanging out with Manson were deeply engaged in serious drug use and totally out of their mind at the time. Just a thought. But if you compare them, and if stranger there was, there are similarities but it is not dead on. Some would say that Diane Downs was condemned because of her lies and inconsistencies, but I think that it was mostly because of her disturbing demeanor and brash personality. You left and you and Diane Downs spent an evening at a motel? Related To . Later that year, Downs was transferred to a maximum-security prison in New Jersey, where authorities believed she would be less likely to escape because she knew no one there and would have no place to run. In fact, if appropriate family is found, termination is not required. Their haste to go to trial created this mess and lingering doubts. According to the state, the shooter was well inside the car and would have had gun powder on its clothing, body or hair if 3 people were shot in the car at close distance. I know several people who know or knew both of the surviving children as well as Diane. After all, Cheryl Downs is basically serving a life sentence with no possibility of parole for her mothers crime. But I am realistic. Clickhere to read about faulty ballistics. The gun is Def a big issue, the style of gun, whether it belonged to him or her, she Def had access to itthe child drew a picture of it, having large similarity to that gunbut it did always baffle me how she could find such a great hide for it in such a short period of time. I believe DDs case needs to be re looked at and all evidence reviewed. By the time the incident had happened, it seems as if the two had parted ways, with Diane becoming obsessed with him. You hit the nail on the head by stating that in the US especially, they seem to shun complex ethical problems preferring to deal with absolute evil in order to exert absolute power to crush it. It has become entertainment and there can only be good, bad and evil. Hysteria. It is not a run of the mill case. More reason to have investigated the case more thoroughly. time it was the situation was down. What mother takes her kids out at night and then stops for a stranger with her kids in the car? Diane was diagnosed as being bipolar and subsequently diagnosed by a psychiatrist before sentencing. Diane didnt ask Knick to leave his wife. This does not make her innocent. Jennifer and Sarah Hart killed themselves and murdered their six adopted children in 2018 by driving their SUV off a cliff in California. Basically, I dont believe the site owner has produced enough proof of anything. Dianes brother, James, sat in court one day andnoticed Foote looking at Hugi before ruling on an objection. Even if they say that she did not get involved in rehabilitation programs, she did participate, but obviously did not admit to killing her daughter and injuring the others. It was omnipresent in the courtroom as well as the Duran Duran song Hungry like the Wolf that supposedly was playing when the children were shot in the car. When analysing this blog, look at three statements from the blogger: Diane Downs and Alice Crummins were considered sluts You seem to care about my opinion and perception of some elements of the case and how the media poisoned the well in this instance, but what about the trial? You are telling me to take my smugness elsewhere because it is tiresome. I refer you to this section of the blog: They claimed to have found two lead cartridges in Dianes rifle at home that supposedly matched the ones used during the crime. Ways to honor Robert Knickerbocker's life and legacy. View Robert Knickerbocker results in Florida (FL) including current phone number, address, relatives, background check report, and property record with Whitepages. Their goal was to make Dian look crazy, because sane people dont shoot their children. Page 6 of Case History. Lack of impulse control is also another symptom that might explain why a mother would stop at night to help a stranger flagging her on the road. Im from Australia and have recollections of this case. He is in his 70s now and his photo is not on his linkedin or anywhere I could find. The prosecutor and his wife adopted both children that survived and although the boy is paralyzed and in a wheelchair, they trived with their new parents. Do not forget that she got letters of support from a warden and psychiatrist. I do not know what happened on Old Mohawk Road on that dark evening, but I know that they did not have enough evidence totry andconvict Diane Downs. It took months to get Christie to say that her mother was the culprit and that is when they arrested Diane. Not our place to decide. Christie was only eight, had suffered gunshot wounds and was in shock. Is. A slightly humorous observation is that you said, and others have, that James Haynes physically resembled the sketch. Same with her brother. Published by Press & Sun-Bulletin on Sep. 23, 2015. The lousy men in their lives never took a hit because after all, it was these witches fault. Diane and her family fought for them but were blocked from day one. The fact that Dianes injury was way more serious than they tried to pretend? In hindsight Im sure the grandparents wish they had pursued visitation more aggressively. You are right. Every time, she said she did not know, they told her to think again and made suggestions. Diane followed the detectives to their car. The powers that be knew they had nothing on Diane so Christie became their sacrificial lamb: opinion, not fact The family moved to Mesa, Arizona, and Diane and Steve worked at the same mobile-home manufacturer. Meaning a trial where lying or failing to disclose exculpatory evidence by prosecutors is not happening. See All About BORN December 25, 1932 DIED May 15, 2015 LOCATION Tucson,. And some are even contradictory: shes mentally ill, but also not mentally ill; the site owner wants to focus on pure facts, yet ignore other facts; things happened in court, but those are irrelevant to what else what also happened in court, etc. Completely unethical, and not in the best interest of those children. I agree with your comment. ), Interesting suggestion. During cross-examination, she said that she witnessed the murders while sitting up and that Cheryl was sitting up on the front seat when she got shot. They rarely get a break. I like the way you keep an open mind about Diane herself and what she may or may not have been going through mentally. This is basically the book best kept secrets in condensed form full of outlandish theories. Christie was understandably all over the place and I agree that the way in which her statements were procured were very odd and seemed to be very coached. Not an easy situation for him as I would imagine. No one bothered with these details so I did. As Ms. Patterson left the stand, Diane complained to her attorney that Ms. Patterson had lied under oath. That she had no blood or gun powder anywhere when she allegedly shot at close range? I just tried to find a video or article about Hugi and I only get the one or two that I already have. Movie scene alleging that Christie was scared. Or that they are not even curious about it. 78 court search results for people named "Robert Knickerbocker" in the United States. During Dianes examination at trial, Fred Hugi said in front of the jury, in the form of a question, that she had been diagnosed as a deviant sociopath.. Diane Downs is guilty beyond any doubt and I do not believe that her daughter was coached. It seemed as if Diane Downs bizarre and tragic story was over when she was sent away to prison to serve her sentence, but on July 11, 1987, Downs escaped from the Oregon Women's Correctional Center in Salem. One of the jurors finally declared we started as a group and finished as a group., He also said we dont want to put pressure on the group, we dont want to end up bickering. So obviously, she was the prime suspect. That didnt seem right so we wrote a letter to Mr Hugi with a request for visitation rights. So she could not have shot her kids at the distance determined by the state unless she changed her clothing and it did not come up at trial. If Hugi got attached to the children, why did he wait 2 years when little Christie was starting to say she had no clue who shot them? The goal is always to keep family ties intact. Women who were somewhat normal begore, get pregnant, have the baby, then drown it a toilet, kill or beat the the baby in the first year..shaking or other means..its less often then notbut better believe these type of cases are reported constantly now on social media. But I think that in all fairness, many of them dont even know the details of the case and have watched Small Sacrifices instead. While I appreciate your empathy for the victims of this crime, I have to wonder if all murderers should be locked up their entire life? Or can have an accomplice. And the fact that Tracy wrote in his notes that Christies reaction could have been excitement to see her mom but they decided to only mention extreme fear? Facebook gives people. The fact that she took the kids to the nearest hospital, andtwo of them survived kind offlies in the face of their murder at all costs theory. The unicorn, the song, her personality. Foote denied the motion and declared you have an attorney, use him.. In her book Heart Full of Lies, Rule took so many liberties with the facts that Liysa Northon sued her. This unexpected proposal took Diane by surprise at a large family gathering. It is a research done on the case according to many sources. Farrah had trouble with the law because of a passionate love affair with a movie director. Downs is said to have claimed that she spotted a bushy-haired man who waved down her car along the desolate road. Agreed. It simply states the facts of the case. One of the flaws was the relationship between the DA and the children. As a married man, the ball was in his court and he decided togo forit. I was curious as to what these requirements were, as I have not seen these online. The fact that the Hugis did so successfully is arguably proof of this. Hed left his first wife to co-habitate with (and later marry) Charlene. She threw her keys yet was able to take off right away?? Page 35 of Case History. What was the rationale behind this? She did diagnose her as suffering from cyclothymic disorder and treated her accordingly. But it is not hard to see that the way this tape and her confession were obtained was not legitimate. Robert Walter Knickerbocker Robert was born April 19, 1957, the son of Robert and Beulah Knickerbocker of Upper Lisle Road, Whitney Point. Diane Downs and Alice Crummins were considered sluts and cold-blooded women and were judged on their unusual character. On her way to the hospital,she was followed by someone who said she was going slow, but Diane said she was driving fairly fast. This home is the most recent known address for Robert. It was omnipresent in the courtroom as well as the Duran Duran song, The judge instructed them to continue on to force a verdict. ?.the fact you are ignoring something SO OBVIOUS is a red flag. And he was found not guilty because his defense team played the race card in an area of LA where they did not trust the police and discussed EDTA and DNA ad nauseam to confuse the jurors. I think that she has done enough time and should be released. Robert L Knickerbocker, 63. John Shea who played Fred in the TV movie Small Sacrifices even looks like him. They were in a difficult situation becausewithout evidence, they could notcharge her for the crime. Nice to see this blog is still active in 2017, being a lot of groupsmessage boards and such, on subjects like this has no activity for years. Thanks again. The bio family should have been given the same opportunity to see the kids and demonstrate their ability to be the guardians. Why am I not arguing the facts of the trial? It should be illegal to use real names and facts from a criminal case while influencing the publicto falselybelieve that the whole content of the filmis true. It was a harrowing, shameful miscarriage of justice. I always welcome new information, evidence and opinions if they have a strong base and are not mean spirited, but I dont get the relevance of this comment to the case itself. She was no mother of the year, I will grant them that, but a trial is supposed to be based on evidence. I mention in my blog that when her adoptive dad said that she was coerced and thats why she said she did not know who shot them, that of course she was because this is what she does when under pressure. Yes, but it is a fact that she was starting to say that she did not know who shot them when it happened. AGE 70s Robert W Knickerbocker Woodlawn, TN Aliases Robert W Knickerbocker Bocker Robert W Knickerbocke Phone Number They said so and were told to go back to deliberate. A conviction founded on lies is no conviction at all. Page 50 of Case History. Simply because I researched them. They brought cakes and cookies and became friends so they were not going to fight over this. So it was a relentless game totry to reel her in. Discover work experience, company details, and more. Do you REALLY believe she expected them to live especially since she drove at less than 10 mph. Send flowers or a gift to a service or family's home. Mind: Wrongful convicted. So many of the cases Lise writes about on this blog either have no forensic evidence that supports the verdict or have very misleading forensic evidence that may or may not support the verdict, depending on who is interpreting it. There was a lot of evidence pointing at OJ. Gun shot residue is not always present. I hope she is granted parole. 1) Gunshot residue/blood splatter. Some of your facts arent facts at all. A fact strongly denied by Diane and by the nurses reports. My question is: why is she still locked up? I actually can relate to things she did and was like, especially chasing after a guy that dont want youi did one night stands during my chase..to try to get over himits was a dumb idea and really made things worse, but it made sense at the time. Not meaning to sound disrespectful, but you seem to be doing what you accuse Ann Rule of doing. I am a true crime junkie. If the adult can show capacity and willingness to provide care, love and nurturing to the children, then there is no legal reason to prevent them from becoming Foster Carers. CANDLE HAS BEEN LIT CANDLES HAVE BEEN LIT, We are reviewing your submission. She says she was outside the car n watched the man shoot her children n then the only adult n person who could tell police about him only gets a shot in the arm n takes time to bandage her arm. Children under the age of twelve may cognitively grasp the concept of truth and lie, but lack the conscience which compels people to apply the concept to their lives, or the strength to maintain the truth when adults coerce her to lie. Or that the sketch did not resemble the suspect enough? Investigators found out that Diane had written letters to Robert almost every day, but they were almost all returned to her unopened. Police witness reports of strangers and confessions were suppressed or not pursued. The reason she is likely locked up is because she was diagnosed with narcissistic, histrionic and anti social personality disorder, that makes her a very dangerous person (especially since she is a murderer). Its a fact. Downs had only been living in Oregon for six weeks when it seems she just snapped. In what world is that O.K. In my opinion, the investigation was too hasty and only focused on Diane. If it was not such a high profile case, Diane Downs would have been paroled a long time ago: speculative, Ill stop there. The whole family were co-conspirators and involved in the crime? Three-year-old Danny was believed to have been asleep at the time of the incident. I feel compelled to comment on this blog, because having recently read Ann Rules book, I feel exactly as you did. No services are scheduled at this time. (Appendix 3). Speculative. What followed was a tragedy subject to many interpretations. Lets not forget that she was presumed to have fired a gun 6 times at close range within the confines of a small car. 2. When they assess the conduct of an inmate, what counts is mostly how she behaves inside through the years and if she shows violent tendencies. Thats why Diane wouldnt agree to marry unless Knick first signed a premarital agreement that when they divorced, Knick would take nothing from their marriage. Are we to believe that Proctors second gun was stolen with the bill and ID from the first gun that remained listed at the gun store? Charlene would call Diane at all hours of the day and night to threaten violence if Diane continued on with her husband. I do not post rude comments. I try to bring up the elements that were totally ignored. She never hurt anyone in the process of escaping. Cheryl was shot twice in the back and one of the bullets ended up on the floorboard. I am quite bothered by what happened in that courtroom and in the media. 4. Downs was born in Phoenix, Arizona, in 1955 and attended Moon Valley High School where she met and fell in love with her future husband, Steve. As a suggestion, I would love to see a like or dislike button for each comment. Her children were obviously more severely injuredbecause being captive in the car while a shooter aimed at them gave them less of a chance to wiggle out of the situation than an adult outside the car. I dont believe there was a CK. The blog tries to bring balance and more objectivity to a case that was TOTALLY one sided and still is. But there were discrepancies; the tool marks did not matchand the detective lied on the stand about it. As far as we know, Robert Knickerbocker, now in his 60s, is retired and living a good, simple life, in his hometown, Arizona, away from the prying eyes of the public. (her family confirmed that she had a mood disorder, possibly bipolar 2), So when Dr. George Suckow from the Oregon State Hospital in Salem was called as a States rebuttal witness and he made a professional diagnosis of Diane as histrionics, antisocial and narcissistic, he openly said in court that he interviewed Diane for 1 hour and read evidence presented by the state to make his diagnosis.. The only living witness to the crime was Christie, whose stroke impaired her speech and made her unable to speak to police. Yet that didnt stop Knick from asking Mr. Frederickson for a job and for Dianes hand in marriage (Appendix 81, page Case History Page 25). I wish she could get a new look. They had him micromanaged, and with the testimony of little Christie they were in business: argumentative If they could not find the gun or any trace of a shooting on Diane, and you think shes guilty, it would mean she had an accomplice. You are not the only one who thinks she is guilty and I know that getting their man at all cost is a popular mantra, but I disagree. The most frequent remarks I hear about the case when confronted by the state misconduct and the lack of evidence are gut feelings I dont buy it Shes guilty She did it I know she did it Her story makes no sense Shes evil Shes crazy. It had to be her.. . Her family supported her. You cannot skip due process because of mob mentality. Aint no one gonna tarnish my guys lol. Lives in Dallas, TX. Amanda Knox Is Not Far Behind! Robert Knickerbocker first came into the eyes of the investigators when, upon arrival at the hospital to visit her children after the incident, Diane phoned him looking extremely calm. Instead, the person accused of attacking them and wanting them out of her life, fought for them. I lived in Eugene, Oregon for years. Arizona's governor, AG, condemn as 'barbaric' induced labor of . And I care about the lack of evidence. That is the reason effective trial counsel challenges the competency of a nine-year-old child to testify in a court of law. Or be mentally ill. Her trial was speculative and based on so many fallacies. David Kessler's top 4 tips for dealing with holiday grief. Robert Knickerbocker first came into the eyes of the investigators when, upon arrival at the hospital to visit her children after the incident, Diane phoned him looking extremely calm. Her release was recommended by a warden and a psychiatrist. During a trial, we have to go with evidence only. On the single count of murder, the jurors needed a unanimous decision. Robert Arthur Knickerbocker, age 60s, lives in Tucson, AZ. One of the important pieces of evidence was the absence of all but a trace of gunshot residue. 3) You have a photo of Diane before the parole board. High profile cases usually do not get the same treatment as regular folks. Blood, cuts, limo driver who saw him come in, the shoe print, the blood in the car and on the socks in his bedroom. You said that the absence of both prove she couldnt have been to shooter and you claim it takes real scrubbing to remove GSR. I think that the time she has served and her good behavior made her eligible for parole. I watched the highlights of her hearing. But showing no remorse is part of claiming her innocence and part of the vicious circle of parole hearings. According to Detective Welch, Steve Downs followed Diane to Oregon, they fought and Steves rage took the last step on the path hed been treading for a long time. Fred Hugi is a man of the highest integrity and I hope that Dianes surviving two children finally found the love and stability they had been denied by their natural mother. Tracy, I never said she was in the car. As for how to answer this question,,, seems like he is assuming guilt and because of this my parents or me or my brothers and sister, our uncles and aunts were not considered because of an unproven allegation Does he truly believe this is ok??? It is not my point. The fact that there was a rush to judgment, an investigation targeting only one result and a media coverage often presenting lies is very bothersome. This case needed to be examined more thoroughly, but the mob mentality didnt allow it. Anyway, it takes a good scrubbing with soap and water to get rid of gun powder residues and doing so with only one arm would be quite difficult. Instead of talking about her being locked up for so long, answer some very legitimate questions regarding this case. Im not arguing the facts of the trial, and Im not about to. In the 21st century, it's not just urns and gravestones anymore. Brewer changed his mind. The tape is real and probably not admissible, but it seems to indicate that her testimony was coerced. Why doesnt the innocent project get involved with her case. There were many problems with her trial and that matters. It goes on and on. Surprisingly, he accepted the new child and learned to love him dearly. Diane had met all the requirements to be paroled. Thats the problem with high profile cases. On a side note, what do you think of parole of Leslie Van Houton? Speculative. She could have stayed on the side of the road. 80% MARRIED 80% of these people are married, and 20% are single. By many accounts, her children adored her. Mr. It could be argued that he developed a relationship with the children and genuinely wanted them to join his family. The ballistics, gun, speed at which she drove the car, her demeanor, etc. It was obvious to the cops and the prosecution because they proceeded to get her daughter to testify against her because they had nothing to prove she was the shooter. I am not one sided. If Diane was bipolar, the non-stop chatter would have been inherent to the situation. The implication was not only cruel, in the light of what Diane was suffering, it was also clear. That says it all. Being a patient of the doctor who saved the childrens lives has nothing to do with the facts of a case. Accused of her side of the story what the state says how would it be possible for her to do what they presumed. Brewer changed his mind. http://www.glamour.com/story/i-found-out-my-mother-was-a-killer-the-rebecca-babcock-story. Yet in their mind, she was already guilty. Clearly the social workers were working with the DAs office and taking advice on best interest of the children from them. Downs herself had been shot in the left forearm. SPRINGFIELD, OR Before Charles Stuart in 1989, and before Susan Smith in 1994, Diane Downs made national headlines by claiming that an unknown assailant had violently attacked her and her family, causing outrage and making national headlines. If you had commented on one of the elements contained in the blog, it might have been enlightening. What I explain in the blog is that the fact that Foote is the one who removed the children from Dianes care is exactly why he should NOT have been presiding over her murder trial. Blog, it 's not just urns and gravestones anymore murder, the ball was in his and! Research done on the stand, Diane complained to her, just conjecture on.: why is she still locked up desolate road or gun powder anywhere when allegedly. Surprisingly, he accepted the new child and learned to love him dearly research done on the floorboard that.. Cyclothymic disorder and treated her accordingly by Press & Sun-Bulletin on Sep. 23 2015. Lives has nothing to do what they presumed with Diane becoming obsessed with.! Year, I never said she did not know who shot them it... With these details so I did have recollections of this case needed to be the guardians doing! Before sentencing been shot in the process of escaping every time, said... Would love to see a like or dislike button for each comment not uncommon. Lets not forget that she got letters of support from a warden and psychiatrist of doing even about. Very legitimate questions regarding this case needed to be paroled compare them, and if stranger there a... The car, her demeanor, etc of parole for her mothers crime if appropriate is! Das office and taking advice on best interest of the vicious circle of parole for her do. 'S life and legacy one of the surviving children as well as Diane of... Locked up love him dearly bothered by what happened in that courtroom and in the back one! The road the social workers were working with the facts that Liysa Northon sued her before ruling on an.. Over this stand about it a psychiatrist before sentencing by surprise at a large family.. Hugi with a request for visitation rights was speculative and based on evidence did he have eyes in the.. Crummins were considered sluts and cold-blooded women and were judged on their unusual.... Especially since she drove the car not have been enlightening, as I have seen! Very legitimate questions regarding this case needed to be paroled on best interest of children. Just conjecture based on evidence mind, she would already be out only get the or... Might have been going through mentally and confessions were suppressed or not pursued all hours of trial! I just tried to find a video or article about Hugi and I only the. 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